Feedback and Advice Time: New Feat Pick!

[Wids]

So eventually, Serrica's going to gain her next level. And with that level will come a new Feat. And I'm already chewing over several choices.

Now, I'm not going to lay out a lot of the details about Serrica's build here, just in case any metagaming PvP-heads out there get any ideas. Her build's quite roleplay-compatible (no 8-Charisma statesman here) and, given the type of cleric she is and the Domains she has, she also does pretty well as an offensive cleric (or "war cleric," or whatever you want to call 'em), both in magic attacks and in melee. Of course, she couldn't possibly have every Feat by now, and there are several Feats which would suit her quite nicely.


• Extend Spell

Why pick it? - Given her present Level, one of Serrica's best defense spells is the humble First-Level Shield of Faith; it can be cast on herself or one of her allies, it raises Deflection AC by 4 points and it lasts for a good while...but all too often, it's not long enough. Several of Serrica's other oft-used spells--such as Greater Magic Weapon, Monstrous Regeneration, Negative Energy Protection, Greater Sanctuary and most of her Summon Creature spells--could also benefit from Extend Spell.

Why not? - Those spells aside, the majority of her staple spells weigh heavily into one of two categories:

1) Instantaneous spells (ie. Cure Critical Wounds, Hammer of the Gods, Restoration, Dispel Magic, Slay Living) which have no durations to double.

2) Spells which are already plenty long in duration and need no such improvement (ie. the Second Level "animal" buffs, Darkfire, Magic Vestment, Animate Dead, Control Undead, Planar Ally, Death Ward), making the need for doubled durations debatable. Given its lethality and its fixed deployment, Blade Barrier could also fit in this category.

There are a handful of spells that fall outside these boxes...Divine Favor, Divine Power, Hold Person, Battletide and such. Most of those spells have short durations, such as 1 round per Level or 1 turn, period. So Extend Spell would only benefit those spells marginally. And let's face it: most of those are pinch spells. You don't want to be in a situation where you need them for longer than their standard duration. If you need more than one round per level to kill a giant with a Hold Person/Blade Barrier combo, either you're way out of your depth or you just plain suck.

But then again, when you're in a massed battle with a seemingly endless number of merrow and hags in the Dark Murky Depths, being able to wring a few more rounds out of Battletide certainly wouldn't hurt.


• Empower Spell or Maximize Spell

Why pick it? - I think it's been established with Serrica's personality that she prefers courtesy, diplomacy and a dash of social manipulation when dealing with others. But she also harbors a great deal of rancor, envy and self-loathing from her tormented youth. And hence, like her (true) deity, she is swift to toss her amicable facade aside and turn into a vicious, bloody fury when angered. Augmented blasts from her favorite offensive spells (ie. Hammer of the Gods, Slay Living (on a passed Fort Save)) would go hand-in-hand with the vindictive side of her personality. Animal buffs which raise Abilities by 6 points instead of 4 would be a pleasant bonus, as would augmented Cure Wounds and Monstrous Regeneration spells.

Why not? - She's not yet of a high enough Level to Empower and/or Maximize such heavy-hitters as Blade Barrier, Regenerate and Destruction, so I might be able to hold off on these Feats for a few more Levels and pick something else. Plus, boosting the damage on Slay Living and Destruction feels about as necessary as getting full coverage insurance on a Ford Escort; when you cast those spells, you're not casting them in hopes that your target won't fail his Fortitude Save and die instantly. And the Fort Save DCs for those spells are so high, even mountain giants and cyclopes only have about a 2-in-5 or 1-in-3 chance of beating them.

Furthermore, three of her favorite offensive spells (Negative Energy Ray, Negative Energy Burst, Ice Storm) are Domain Spells, and I'm not sure if those spells can be Empowered or Maximized at all. Like I've mentioned, Serrica's my first Cleric to survive past Level 4. I'm not a peerless Cleric guru yet.


• Combat Casting

Why pick it? - Serrica has a high Concentration, and I've found Defensive Casting to be a pleasant alternative to giving Attacks of Opportunity to whatever's swinging tree limbs at her head. But without Combat Casting, she still picks up a -4 penalty to the Concentration check when defensive casting in melee. With her self-buffs, her sweet rapier, her Improved Knockdown and her need to take some of the aggro off her pets, she gets into melee a lot. And when Serrica's getting flanked by three hill giants, I need to switch to Defensive Casting, I need to daze those giants with a well-placed Hammer of the Gods spell, and I need that spell to fire off.

Why not? - Good question. Why not?


• Brew Potion or Craft Wand

Why pick it? - Because fighting isn't everything. Serrica didn't get a whole lot of education from her cabin-girl childhood aboard her father's pirate ship, but the Waterdhavian temple which took her in after a sudden sea storm sank that ship and left her the only known survivor (because being small enough to fit inside an empty, soon-to-be-flotsam barrel counts for something) took care of that. The cause of that sinking--and her reviled father's death--and her introduction to her present avenue of faith may or may not be coincidental (and I have no wish to fill in that blank myself). But the Queenspire is apparently a pretty huge, well-outfitted bastion of a temple, as such a temple in a city-state with a powerful seafaring trade could be expected to be. Plenty of education--and religious indoctrination--consumed while coming of age in the Queenspire gave Serrica the tools she needed to serve the temple as a scribe during her acolyte years. Scribing magic scrolls with divine power came from that. And, given her recent forays into potion-brewing and enchanting, more variety in her created magic items could come from that. Her Scribe Scroll feat alone has already yielded another means of profit and personal gain, a goodly number of roleplay interactions and another way of reaching out to the world around her and finding more places to fit in with it. Surely Brew Potion and Craft Wand would bring even more such opportunities.

Besides, crafted goods tend to be the cheapest goods, so these Feats can serve her adventuring side too. Do you honestly think that Serrica bought a single one of her Raise Dead and Resurrection scrolls?

Why not? - Luckbringer's new alchemy and enchanting systems could very well reduce or even negate the need for either one of these Feats.


And there may be more reasons--pro or con--than these.

So in your assuredly neutral, unbiased opinion, and in regards to both the character and the server itself, which Feat would be the most ideal to go with, come next Level?

[minion]

there is certainly bias in my opinion, but none of it having to do with your PC or this particular server, so...

my pick of your presented options would be Extend. i have a combat-savvy multiclassed wizard (who therefore feels much like a cleric in NWN combat) who has Extend Spell, Empower Spell and Brew Potion (as well as Scribe Scroll, of course), and of the lot of these i would recommend Empower on other servers (primarily for the stat buffs, which wouldn't be affected here), then Extend, then Brewing as a distant third, unless RP dictated otherwise, of course. here on PI i would reverse Empower and Extend, particularly for a cleric whose offensive spells look like they're more often used for straight-up pass-or-fail effects like death or disabling.

it's true, there aren't too many spells that will benefit, but not many need to. minute/lvl spells now last long enough that two or three castings will keep them going the entire trip (except on the longest trips, which simply requires a little discretion on when you can go without for a while). round/lvl or 1-minute-flat spells now will last through even a long, tough encounter (nothing quite as frustrating as losing that short-duration buff that was tipping the scales just barely in your favor, just in time for your opponent to down a healing potion and start swinging again like your head was a tee-ball and he was Barry Bonds).

and, while not the first reason to consider it, bear in mind that if you don't have a "+1 spell level" metamagic feat, it gives you a surprising new flexibility in how to prepare your spells. moving spells up a level (particularly once you have enough slots that they aren't all dedicated to only the most effective spell at each level just to ensure survival) means you can prepare more of a particular type of spell, since unfortunately Bioware didn't incorporate the option of being able to prepare any spell of the level of the spell slot you're filling or lower, as clearly i think they should have.

anyway, my mage really only uses Extend on 3 different spells regularly: Shield, Flame Weapon (which conveniently puts it on-par in duration with GMW) and Mass Haste (which is actually the only thing he has prepared in his highest spell level, since the 7th lvl spells don't compare to an Extended Mass Haste when there are a few PCs and/or summons involved).

Brew Potion is really only good for a handful of spells no matter what class you are, and even then it is grossly over-priced to do regularly unless you know someone with a taste for those few things they can't get elsewhere and deep pockets (as is evidenced by the fact that on most of the servers i've seen that i would bother comparing PI to, the brewing price and the price in shops of common potions are often nearly identical, before taking XP into account). they make great stocking-stuffers, though, if your PC has lots of friends they want to keep protected (my PC's reason for having it and using it).

i've never used Combat Casting in NWN, so that's the one feat i can't comment on one way or the other.

whatever you pick, enjoy it.

[luckbringer]

With respect to the crafting systems making craft wand useless: it won't replace craft wand. Enchanting will (eventually) allow wizards to make a few types of staves which will be much better than using wands to cast attack spells and a few other things. However, the existing *useful* applications of wand crafting will remain (casting spells in a pinch like invis, spell breach & buffs for umd wand users like death ward, improved invis, etc).

Brew potion is almost 100% useless in standard bioware implementation. I would advise against taking it unless we make it mandatory for some of alchemy or find some other way to make it useful. I'm not ruling this out, but brew potion is not a priority right now.

ps: Ideally this section should be used for feedback about the server rather than character concept help.

[DM Scurvy]

Make a barbarian. Problem solved!

[Wids]

Nov 27, 2011 16:17:08 GMT -5 minion said:

i've never used Combat Casting in NWN, so that's the one feat i can't comment on one way or the other.

Here come those screenshots I was talking about...cropped to fit these forums without breaking the pages, at least at a 1280x1024 resolution.




This is what happens when you cast spells in melee without Defensive Casting. Every enemy within melee range gets an Attack of Opportunity on you during the casting, with the usual exceptions: enemies who are unable to attack at all, and enemies who have already spent their one AoO per round on something else that round. And just like regular attacks, an AoO which hits you can disrupt your spell, scratching it from your prepared spells with no effect.

So by casting spells in melee the normal way, you're basically giving each of your enemies an extra attack that round. That means doubling their chances to disrupt your spell (if they've won Initiative), giving them a chance that they don't deserve (if they've lost Initiative) and giving them one more hack at your sweet, sweet Hit Points. That last one can't be stressed enough when you're toe to toe with monsters that have Sneak Attacks, Death Attacks, on-hit status attacks or a horrific amount of damage dice.

Everytime a monster hits you while you're casting a spell, you roll a Concentration check to see if you can still cast the spell successfully; fail the check and the spell fizzles and is wasted. And here's the formula through which the DC for this check is determined:

(Spell's Level) + (Sum of Damage taken from the attack) + 10 = DC to avoid spell failure from enemy hit

That's right. The amount of damage you take from the interrupting attack determines your chances of shrugging off the hit and casting your spell anyway. So if you're engaged with a few kobolds who are lucky if they can deal more than 3 Damage a round, you probably don't have to worry about spell failure all that much. But if your spellcasting just got you swatted by a cyclops who critted you for 45 Damage, you might need nothing less than a Natural 20 to get your Harm spell off and stop him from doing that again. Good luck.

Now, if your cleric's a walking tank with an Armor Class of 50 (probably because you skimped on Wisdom and Charisma and splurged on Strength instead...and that's not why we play Clerics, is it?), it's okay to take your chances like this. An AoO which misses has a 0% chance of disrupting your spell, after all. Unfortunately, Serrica's not a tank. She's a sea cleric and she swims a lot. Put her in anything heavier than a chain shirt and she sinks like a rock. So full plate isn't really an option for her.






Now, this is spellcasting in melee with Defensive Casting on. In the first picture, you can see her casting Hammer of the Gods while in melee with two umplebies. Casting the spell didn't provoke any Attacks of Opportunity; the umpleby who thumped her while she was casting the spell thumped her with his regular one attack per round, which just happened to coincide with her spellcasting. Without Defensive Casting, she might have had to deal with three Concentration checks instead, with one for the umpleby's regular attack and two more for the AoO's that both umplebies would normally get against a spellcaster casting in melee.

Defensive Casting doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity, but it comes at a price: because you're pretty much casting spells on the sly while in Defensive Casting mode, each spell you cast has to pass its own Concentration check. Fail this check and you yourself bungle your own spell and waste it. The formula for this check, however, is a bit more forgiving:

(Spell's Level) +15 [+4 if within 4m of any enemy without Combat Casting] = DC to avoid spell failure from Defensive Casting

Like I said, against a single low-damage enemy who can't do more than 5 or so Damage a round, Defensive Casting's not all that great. But in the thick of a dogpile, Defensive Casting's nice to have; one Concentration check's a lot more tolerable than five or six. And against a towering brute with fists the size of ton kegs and a correspondingly fearsome Damage range, Defensive Casting can be your best friend.

Back to the example, Serrica passed her two Concentration checks and got her spell off: one check for the umpleby's hit and one check for the Defensive Casting check. Hammer of the Gods is a Level 4 spell, and the umpleby's attack did 9 Damage. Plugging those numbers into our formulas right quick....

4 + 9 + 10 = DC 23 to avoid spell failure from the umpleby's hit

4 + 15 + 4 = DC 23 to avoid spell failure from Serrica's Defensive Casting

There. The Defensive Casting check wasn't so bad, was it? And it didn't give the umplebies any free attacks, either. But it could be even better...




...because 4 points is a big deal when it comes to Skill checks. And wasted spells suck.




While most clerics have to cast Negative Energy Ray as a 2nd Level spell, Serrica can cast Negative Energy Ray as a 1st Level spell. Why? Because she's special. Now shut up.

Giving you a brief peek at Serrica's character sheet, her total Concentration bonus is normally 14. Contrary to what the descriptions for Concentration and Combat Casting suggest, Defensive Casting within spitting distance of an enemy doesn't subtract 4 from the Concentration roll; instead, it adds 4 to the DC of that check. I don't know why it's like that.

For a humble 1st Level Negative Energy Ray, the DC to that casting check should have been DC 16. 15 +1, right? But Serrica doesn't have Combat Casting yet, and that ogre's close enough to give her a noogie. And honestly, is there really any reason to use Defensive Casting mode aside from spellcasting in melee? Enemy Attacks of Opportunity suck about as much as wasted spells do.

(Yes, I know. Defensive Casting can help you get your spells off while a line of archers are raining arrows on you from half a mile away, too. But in my opinion, that's what potions of Invisibility and Entropic Shield are for. Juice up and let 'er rip in relative safety.)

So that ogre's proximity is what spiked the Defensive Casting check's DC up to 20, as seen in the screenshot. With the Combat Casting feat, that DC would be right back at 16...not a bad incentive for taking Combat Casting, methinks.




This is just another picture of Serrica taking two hits from kobolds while casting defensively. Silly little weenies....




Casting Cure Minor Wounds (a Level 0 spell) defensively, with no enemies around. 0 + 15 + 0 = DC 15, of course. No sweat.




Now with Cure Critical Wounds (4th Level)...




...and Monstrous Regeneration (5th Level)...




...with Destruction (7th Level) on a grass tuft for dessert. ;D

It's okay; the server hasn't had a reset for about a week now, so the plants have stopped spawning their goodies. No grasshoppers, no shamrocks, no comfrey leaves. I checked. I need to go bug Lucky about that in another thread now....

So there's our lesson on Defensive Casting for today. Any questions?

[Wids]

Nov 27, 2011 19:23:09 GMT -5 luckbringer said:

With respect to the crafting systems making craft wand useless: it won't replace craft wand. Enchanting will (eventually) allow wizards to make a few types of staves which will be much better than using wands to cast attack spells and a few other things. However, the existing *useful* applications of wand crafting will remain (casting spells in a pinch like invis, spell breach & buffs for umd wand users like death ward, improved invis, etc).

Ah, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Craft Wand is still in the running, then. Lagging behind, but still running.

Creating rods and staves would be pretty neat, too. Will druids and clerics also be able to create magic staves like wizards and sorcerers will?

And are there any developing plans for a system to recharge wands, rods and staves, by chance?

Nov 27, 2011 19:23:09 GMT -5 luckbringer said:

Brew potion is almost 100% useless in standard bioware implementation. I would advise against taking it unless we make it mandatory for some of alchemy or find some other way to make it useful. I'm not ruling this out, but brew potion is not a priority right now.

I had expected Brew Potion's products to be dirt cheap in light of Dorkling's changes to the item creation Feats some time back. After all, potions are cheaper than their equivalent scrolls...normally.

But since you mention it, Serrica already does have Scribe Scroll. And anything a potion can do, a scroll can do better...no Spell Level limits, a lot fewer forbidden spells (...ever heard of a Potion of Negative Energy Ray? No? There's a reason for that...) and no Attacks of Opportunity for reading a scroll in melee (unless you're playing tabletop D&D).

On the other hand, anyone can drink a potion, but most people can't use most spell scrolls. "Here, Siriel. If you get into trouble, use this Scroll of Greater Sanctuary. Bye!" "...wait, what?"

Nov 27, 2011 19:23:09 GMT -5 luckbringer said:

ps: Ideally this section should be used for feedback about the server rather than character concept help.

Ah, sorry. Let's go ahead and move this topic to General Discussion (or wherever appropriate), if you want.

Nov 27, 2011 21:20:14 GMT -5 DM Scurvy said:

Make a barbarian. Problem solved!

Clerics eat Barbarians for Eucharist. "Say hello to my Hold Person spell, you lummox! While you're standing there doing nothing but lamenting your butt-scrubbing Will save, I'm going to shave your head with a carefully swung flail. Hold still!" ;D

[828stingstingneo]

My vote goes like this:

#1 Combat Casting - Why? Your character already uses it, so it suits both RP and your style of playing that she'd develop skills with that feat. It sounds like it'll get a lot of use and be statistically beneficial as well.

#2 Empower/Maximize Spell - Why? Your character's fiery temper is a great RP reason to do this, but as you said, it could wait until a later feat slot.

#3 Craft Wand - Why? It sounds like you have a good RP reason to do this, too, but also that item crafting feats aren't really that useful.

#4 Extend Spell - Why? While I trust minion's statistical analysis that this is actually more useful than Empower for your cleric, I say "statistics shmatistics." I'm not sure that this would be a priority for your character if extending Shield of Faith is her main concern. However, you know your character best, and if "all too often" is more often than Serrica's temper would flare, go ahead and bump this up in priority.

#5 Multiclass into barbarian - Why? If your character really has that temper going, maybe picking up a little rage wouldn't be such a silly idea. Many of my own pirate characters had levels of barbarian, albeit that may just be proof that it really is a silly idea.

Disclaimer: I'm not a numbers cruncher with character building skills, so following my advice may not help your character actually survive. I personally just use the Recommended button if I can't decide about these things.

PS:

• Nose

Why pick it?

Why not?

[Wids]

HI, STINGY! ;D

Okay, let's see what you got:

Nov 28, 2011 10:10:11 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

My vote goes like this:

#1 Combat Casting - Why? Your character already uses it, so it suits both RP and your style of playing that she'd develop skills with that feat. It sounds like it'll get a lot of use and be statistically beneficial as well.

#2 Empower/Maximize Spell - Why? Your character's fiery temper is a great RP reason to do this, but as you said, it could wait until a later feat slot.

#3 Craft Wand - Why? It sounds like you have a good RP reason to do this, too, but also that item crafting feats aren't really that useful.

Good points for each of these, though limited to a choice between the two I would probably choose Empower over Maximize, especially if Domain Spells can be augmented by these Feats. The nicest thing about Negative Energy Burst isn't the hard-to-mitigate Negative Energy damage; the damage for this spell is actually rather small...1d8 +1/caster Level (Max +20). No, the nicest thing is actually the unavoidable Strength loss: -1 Strength per four caster Levels. Enemies struck by the NEB can pass a Will save to take half Damage, but there's nothing they can do (aside from having Negative Energy Protection on) to reduce or avoid the Strength damage. This makes NEB an ideal spell to toss into the middle of a mob of ogres, merrow, hill giants or other Strength-heavy brutes. And if you can zap 'em with multiple NEBs, more power to you.

Furthermore, both the Hit Point damage and the Strength damage are reversed on undead, healing them and buffing their Strength scores (though curiously enough, the undead still roll Will saves and get their healing halved on a successful Save; go figure). Combine these two details and we come to another strategy which I've used with Serrica to great success: send her undead lackey out to act as a brute magnet, wait till the brutes converge on the lackey, cast two or three NEBS at the lackey and watch the lackey get stronger and less injured while the brutes grow weaker and closer to death.

So I'm wondering if Domain Spells are compatible with metamagic feats (though I doubt it), and if so, would Empower Spell add to Negative Energy Burst's Strength damage as well as its regular Damage? Would the current -3 Strength from a NEB hit become -5 Strength if Empowered?

Toughie. I can't seem to find the answer to that one anywhere.

Nov 28, 2011 10:10:11 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

#4 Extend Spell - Why? While I trust minion's statistical analysis that this is actually more useful than Empower for your cleric, I say "statistics shmatistics." I'm not sure that this would be a priority for your character if extending Shield of Faith is her main concern. However, you know your character best, and if "all too often" is more often than Serrica's temper would flare, go ahead and bump this up in priority.

Well, like I said, Shield of Faith is one of Serrica's most versatile defense spells, and it gives the biggest Armor Class bonus. She casts it on herself very often, and she casts it on her pets and her partymates as well (most typically whenever she's letting her Skeleton Captain play "aggro magnet," as described above). And Lucky keeps telling me that Serrica needs to get her AC up and keep it up, and I agree with that. So Shield of Faith alone is a pretty good incentive to pick Extend Spell, to say nothing of the other spells which can benefit from it.

As a bonus, one 2nd Level Shield of Faith would equal two 1st Level Shields of Faith, so each Extended Shield of Faith would free up two 1st Level spell slots, which I could then fill with more Negative Energy Rays, Divine Favors, whatever. The downside is that her 2nd Level spell slots are usually filled with her animal buffs, Stone Bones, Lesser Restoration, Hold Person, Lesser Dispel or Resist Elements. In order to Extend Shield of Faith, one of those spells would have to go. And that can be a pretty tough choice to make.

It's also worth mentioning that Stone Bones, with its duration of 10 minutes per caster level, would be another handy spell to Extend, in part because it stacks with Shield of Faith. On numerous occasions, Serrica has done just that to turn her skellie into a screeching, boney murdertank and send him headlong into battle, often with a Negative Energy Burst or three close behind. Ilthan Island's cyclopes never seem to handle that combo very well.

Nov 28, 2011 10:10:11 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

#5 Multiclass into barbarian - Why? If your character really has that temper going, maybe picking up a little rage wouldn't be such a silly idea. Many of my own pirate characters had levels of barbarian, albeit that may just be proof that it really is a silly idea.

Now, I'm not saying that Serrica has the kind of anger management problems where she'll stab your eyes out if you chide her for wearing teal on Labor Day; with her high Wisdom, strong Concentration and a shot of Discipline, I like to think that she has some focus, self-control and grip on her emotions. But if she sees nothing wrong with letting go of herself and switching to Melon-Ball Your Face Mode, she will.

It's complicated, and I blame my complicated attempts at character development for that. So without going into too much detail (because that's what the journal-thread-to-be will be for), let's say that you have a kid. She's an unwanted, illegitimate kid because her Dad's a pirate and her Mom's a low-class whore who took him in one night before he left port a few years ago. Dad comes back to see Mom again for another night of woohoo, Mom surprises Dad by telling him "You're a Dad, Dad" and tries to shove the kid off on him because it's been three years and she's tired of having the kid around the brothel because it's bad for business. Dad says, "Fine, I don't want my kid to be raised in a whorehouse anyway," takes the kid and leaves port again.

Soonafter, Dad starts having second thoughts. The kid's one more mouth to feed, the kid's always getting underfoot and the kid's always distracting the crew from their jobs. Worst of all, Dad's lovable, carefree pirate lifestyle isn't as lovable or carefree anymore, not with that kid hanging off his arm all the time. He can't just kill his kid or dump her on some island somewhere; that's his own flesh and blood, and even evil men have some standards. Besides, some of the crew are taking a shine to her. What would they say?

Still, the kid's starting to wear on Dad's nerves, and Dad starts to take it out on both the crew and the kid. Some of the crew start to blame the kid for Dad turning into such a jerk, and they start taking that out on the kid. Others in the crew see Dad and their crewmates start to get meaner on the kid, so they become the kid's "big brothers." One of them--we'll call him Long Jack, or Jack for short--is the First Mate, Dad's right-hand man and a man the other pirates look up to, and he becomes a sort of "surrogate Dad" to the kid. Dad and his ego do not like that at all, and Dad becomes an even bigger all-around jerk.

Eventually the dissent among the ranks comes to a head, and Jack tries to start a mutiny. Dad's an old hardcase and he still has most of the crew's loyalty, so the mutiny fails. Jack's allies all get put to the sword, and Dad personally keelhauls Jack to death. The kid just lost all of her friends to her bastard of a Dad, and now the ship's short of crewmen, so all the remaining pirates have to work harder. The kid gets blamed and catches hell for it, as usual.

So the ship heads back to the scummy parts of Waterdeep (which Dad and his ship have sagely spared from aggression while doing that dominion the occasional good turn as a privateer ship to stay on their good side) to hire on some new cutthroats. On their way there, the ship gets caught in a sudden sea storm. Dad's dangerously shorthanded crew could barely keep the ship straight on choppy seas; in a sea storm, they're pretty much doomed. The ship goes under, and all souls aboard are lost.

Except for the kid.

The kid washes up on shore, crawls out of her barrel and walks the rest of the way to Waterdeep. With no money, no place to live and a smattering of apprentice-level pirate skills, the kid bumbles around for a while as a street urchin, begging and stealing to keep herself fed. But she's still a kid, and kids are young and impressionable, traits which some priests from the Church of Hey, the Ocean Wants to Eat You (CHOWEY) keep in mind when they happen across the kid in the middle of their routine "Give our goddess some money or you're screwed" errands.

The CHOWEY priests have a sit-down talk with the kid, and the kid, miserable as she is, is quite eager to tell her story. The priests not only figure that she's not just some scrubby kid born into poverty, but that she could be just the type of "CHOWEY cub" they're looking for. The kid wouldn't be where she was if it weren't for the sea's fury, after all. So the kid gets three meals, a cot and a halfway decent education, much of which includes daily lessons on the CHOWEY faith...how to suck up to our goddess, how to avoid annoying our goddess, what to do if you do annoy our goddess, how to impress these fears of annoying our goddess unto other people so you can milk them for all they're worth, and so on. So now the kid has a kind-of-warm place to sleep, kind-of-warm food to eat, an education, a place where she's made to feel welcome for once in her life, promises of future power to reward her for her devotion and to compensate for her past and present weakness, and, most importantly, a purpose for living. A cause.

So then the kid becomes the teen, the sea tries to kill the teen, and the teen survives and becomes the priestess. The priestess looks back on her life and sees a few key points:

1) She suffered a lot as the kid, and in her eyes, the world still owes her for that.

2) Her goddess set her free from all that mess, simply by allowing her to live where so many died. Whether the goddess was feeling genuinely merciful or simply didn't care enough to make any actual effort to kill the kid is a distinction which the priestess doesn't bother to make. Either way, the priestess owes the goddess bigtime.

3) Though the goddess has a reputation for killing people who welch on their debts to her, the goddess need not fear that from the priestess; her wretched kid days are never far from the priestess' memory, and a simple withholding of the goddess' power is all it would take to put the priestess right back there, at least in her eyes. Without the goddess, the priestess is nothing. With her, she can become anything. The priestess' loyalty is thus quite genuine, no mere product of intimidation.

4) The one great shining in the darkness of her kid days was Jack, and, thanks to the circumstances of Jack's death, the priestess is almost certain that her goddess is the keeper of Jack's soul. Perhaps if the priestess serves her goddess with all her heart and soul and takes epic strides in her name, the goddess will let the priestess have Jack back. Thus, one more powerful reason for the priestess to stay true to the faith.

5) As the priestess continues to grow and evolve in service to the goddess, she starts to develop her own ego or sense of self-importance, as rags-to-riches types often do. She still scrapes and grovels before her goddess and her superiors, of course, but anyone of lesser station than the priestess would do well to show her a little courtesy in all their dealings with her. An attack on the priestess is not simply an attack on the priestess; it's an affront against her goddess as well. And that simply must not go unavenged.

...

Curse me and my excessive character development. Why can't I just create another world-conquering madman with delusions of grandeur like everybody else?

In short, Serrica's vindictive, not prone to flying into fits of berserk rage. What deep-seated anger she has isn't the "RARRRGH, DIE!!!" kind of anger born of acute neurosis and lack of emotion control; it's the "How DARE you?!? You'll PAY for that!!!" kind of anger born of indignation and the kind of vanity which sprouts to bury old feelings of inadequacy surmounted with a vengeance. And she's still pretty quick--and pretty furious--to defend her wounded pride and/or the esteem of her goddess like that.

Sorry for any confusion there.

Nov 28, 2011 10:10:11 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

Disclaimer: I'm not a numbers cruncher with character building skills, so following my advice may not help your character actually survive. I personally just use the Recommended button if I can't decide about these things.

The Recommended button? I use it for quick-rolling test characters only. Otherwise, I call it "The Fail button," and for good reason.

Nov 28, 2011 10:10:11 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

PS:

• Nose

Why pick it?

Why not?

I actually clicked on that link, I'll have you know.

One born every minute, right?

Why pick it? Because you have scabs in your nostrils and they itch when you breathe.

Why not? Because you're in the middle of dinner with your parents.

'Zalt. ;D

[minion]

while i knew most of the statistical elements (at least those that are identical to PnP, anyway), i still appreciate the tutorial.

slight tangent: i had thought that there was virtually no reason to take the feat as opposed to Skill Focus: Concentration (which i would still likely take instead for other reasons), but the additional 4-point DC "complication" in melee is a damn good reason to bother looking at the feat at all. that makes a total of a 5 point difference between the two feats, under those specific circumstances, which is a pretty big deal (under those circumstances).

and the "Recommended" button is good enough for clerics. i'm not saying one cleric isn't different from another, and i'm not saying there aren't reasons to make your own decisions. i'm just saying that, statistically, clerics are hard to screw up. i've come as close to "screwing up" (in a purely survival-minded and purely statistical sense) a cleric build with Gill as i think you really can without deliberately setting out to do so, and he still does waaaaay better than a similarly-minded and similarly built sorceress (who respawns way more often despite my being more careful with her).

edit: oh yeah... and as for the problem of losing your 2nd level spells to extended 1st level ones... that's what 3rd level spell slots are for. (i know most people think that's crazy, but a fair number of my PCs who can cast spells and have the feat end up using a great many of their spell slots on extended spells for a long, long while).

[828stingstingneo]

Nov 28, 2011 13:13:38 GMT -5 Wids said:

So I'm wondering if Domain Spells are compatible with metamagic feats (though I doubt it), and if so, would Empower Spell add to Negative Energy Burst's Strength damage as well as its regular Damage? Would the current -3 Strength from a NEB hit become -5 Strength if Empowered?

From my offline test of things, it appears that you can indeed use metamagic feats with domain spells. However, it appears that the Strength bonus/penalty remains +3. Those are using the default scripts; I don't know if the PI scripters would have changed anything.

As a bonus, one 2nd Level Shield of Faith would equal two 1st Level Shields of Faith, so each Extended Shield of Faith would free up two 1st Level spell slots, which I could then fill with more Negative Energy Rays, Divine Favors, whatever. The downside is that her 2nd Level spell slots are usually filled with her animal buffs, Stone Bones, Lesser Restoration, Hold Person, Lesser Dispel or Resist Elements. In order to Extend Shield of Faith, one of those spells would have to go. And that can be a pretty tough choice to make.

That's a good point. If you extend a spell it has to be better than the spell it replaces, not just better than the original version of itself.

It's also worth mentioning that Stone Bones, with its duration of 10 minutes per caster level, would be another handy spell to Extend, in part because it stacks with Shield of Faith.

Erm, Stone Bones is on your above list of second level spells, so if you extend them both the Stone Bones slot will be clear for an extended Shield of Faith anyway. I guess that just proves minion's point: "that's what 3rd level spell slots are for."

So without going into too much detail

*reads and scrolls down and down. . . and down. . . and vaguely wonders what the long version is like*

Nov 28, 2011 10:10:11 GMT -5 828stingstingneo said:

PS:

• Nose

Why pick it?

Why not?

I actually clicked on that link, I'll have you know.

Heh, sorry. I didn't really mean to trick you there. I just copied the format from your own post. At least I didn't inadvertently link to an inappropriate website!

[luckbringer]

The empower/maximize metamagic feats only work with variable numerical values in spells. So they work for 10d6 damage, but not with the strength damage/penalty of 3.

My changes to attribute spells (+4 always, +6 when empowered or max'd) break this rule, but I didn't want to remove the ability to empower/max attribute spells, because that's one of the most common uses of the meta magic feats. I also did not want to break any character who had already selected max/empower to use in this fashion.

[Wids]

The Strength damage from Negative Energy Burst isn't fixed at -3, now; that exact amount depends on the caster's Cleric level. Once Serrica reaches Level 16, her NEBs will start sapping 4 Strength from anyone caught in the blast. And so on up the Level ladder, until Serrica hits Level 40 and starts slamming people's Strength for 10 points with a Burst. Ouch.

But your point still stands; the Strength damage from NEB is a fixed value, not a variable value. So if Empower and Maximize only affect variables, the Strength damage from NEB won't be altered; only its Negative Energy damage will.

And I guess I answered my own question. What would my Extended Shield of Faith replace? My usual Stone Bones. What would my Extended Stone Bones replace? Whatever I want it to, as long as it isn't my usual Animate Dead. Because none of the undead on this server are as good as the one I can summon up. >:]

Some of the Third Level spells are pretty useless anyway (Contagion, Continual Flame and Glyph of Warding come right to mind...), several others (such as Invisibility Purge or Remove Curse) are only worth taking for certain areas or certain conditions, and Serrica has most of the latter in scroll form anyway. So I'm usually not drowning in choices to fill my Third Level spell slots. So I might as well make one of them an Extended Stone Bones.

On the other hand, Serrica can also take Poison as one of those 3rd Level spells, thanks to her Domains. Poison's pretty handy against giants, cyclopes and other high-Strength, melee-nasty enemies, especially if the fight drags out for long. But Poison's a touch attack spell, so the only time she can cast Poison without getting clobbered is if she casts defensively. And even though she already has Skill Focus (Concentration), Combat Casting would sure be nice to have in times like that.

But then again, she can scribe the regular 4th Level Poison into scroll form, and scrolls don't provoke AoO's in NWN either. And she can also scribe other nasty melee spells like Slay Living or Harm.

But few scroll spells are as good as the spells cast by the casters themselves....

I need a sodie.

[828stingstingneo]

Nov 30, 2011 19:40:37 GMT -5 Wids said:

The Strength damage from Negative Energy Burst isn't fixed at -3, now; that exact amount depends on the caster's Cleric level. Once Serrica reaches Level 16, her NEBs will start sapping 4 Strength from anyone caught in the blast.

Sorry, I forgot to specify I tested the spell using a level 15 character. I guess 1/level still counts as fixed as opposed to dice/level.

On the other hand, Serrica can also take Poison as one of those 3rd Level spells, thanks to her Domains. Poison's pretty handy against giants, cyclopes and other high-Strength, melee-nasty enemies, especially if the fight drags out for long. But Poison's a touch attack spell, so the only time she can cast Poison without getting clobbered is if she casts defensively. And even though she already has Skill Focus (Concentration), Combat Casting would sure be nice to have in times like that.

Ah, the catch 22.

[Wids]

So I decided to grab Serrica and stab my way through the [some tomb] last night, and I came upon a small epiphany: Like Einstein said, time is pretty friggin' relative sometimes.

Only a fool would go into the [some tomb] without Negative Energy Protection; two of the three wings of that dungeon bear the promise of death by level drain, and the dire spiders who pop up among the wraith spiders have some pretty nasty venom to boot. You don't really need Death Ward for that oh-so-deadly dungeon; I mostly just pack it in case a DM tinkers with the spawns and a bodak pops up. But Negative Energy Protection is a must.

I think it was Serrica's second excursion into that dungeon when she was Level Drained to death by spectres; it was my first time exploring the spectre/wraith wing, and that part of the dungeon has a nasty habit of spawning mobs of spectres and/or wraiths behind you or between you and the entrance chamber, cutting off your escape. And death by negative Levels is considerably more lethal than death by lost Hit Points; you have fewer Levels than you have Hit Points, you can't fix yourself with anything less than Restoration and there is no -10 bleed-out for level drain. Zero is death. Spectres and their two-Level drain make things even worse. But at least you get a Save to resist level drain, in all cases.

(And spectres also get that animal-scaring Aura of Unnatural. As if Quin Clue needed one more reason to keep avoiding the place.... )

But an ounce of prevention's worth a pound of cure, and that prevention is where NEP comes in. The only problem is that NEP only lasts for 1 turn per spellcaster Level, which already isn't very long. However, when each fight with a mob of spectres takes several minutes because the spectres are whiffing at your buffed-up Armor Class and you're whiffing at their 50% Concealment (even with Divine Favor, Aid or Battletide running), that 1 turn per level seems to blow by a lot quicker. Serrica prepared two NEP castings, she burned through both of them in the wraith/spectre wing alone and she still ended up using both of her prepared Restoration and Greater Restoration spells on her way out, just from catching random level drains from all the wraiths and spectres trying to block her escape and forcing her to fight her way through. The juju zombie wing is cake by comparison.

So maybe if I could prepare some Extended Negative Energy Protection spells, I wouldn't need to prepare as many Restorations and Greater Restorations. Sure, I'd still be wise to pack at least one (preferably Greater Restoration and all its full healing goodness), since you're eventually going to run into that time where your NEP expires while you're getting flanked by five spectres. But if Extended NEP means fewer Restorations and Greater Restorations, which in turn means more Hammers of the Gods and Words of Faith, I'm all for it. Looks like I might be picking Extend Spell come next Level, in light of all that realization.

On a related note, spectres make pretty handy targets for your Control Undead spells. That Concealment makes them pretty useful as aggro-soaking tanks. Serrica found five spectres at the end of that dead end behind the Wraith Gatekeeper, she Controlled the nearest one and the other four took a little under a minute to finally kill the "turncoat," which was not before Serrica had nuked all of them with two Hammers, killed a juju zombie that popped up and had started carving into the mob with Battletide.

A couple runs through [some tomb] ago, Serrica did the same thing with the Wraith Gatekeeper himself; just use him to tank and kill off the other wraiths and spectres, and after you're done with him, thank him for his dedicated servitude by slapping him with Raise Dead and taking all his stuff. What could be simpler?

edit to remove spoiler of location - luckbringer

[Wids]

Hey, [some tomb] is a pretty happening place! Everyone must visit [some tomb] at least once. ;D

Also, it's Heal that insta-nukes the strongest undead, not Raise Dead. You would think that Raise Dead would affect the undead the same way its evil counterpart (Slay Living) affects the living, but no. They just ignore it and keep staring blankly at your warm, living, delicious flesh.